There are two stages of using this website, and it's important all members (particularly Officers) understand those processes.

The first is an application - this is done through http://oldtimers.guildomatic.com/guild_application/apply (the APPLY NOW on the right-hand side of the website). As per the details below, this is how people join Old Timers.

The second is registration - this only happens once people have joined Old Timers. They need to do this in order to use the website, and they can do it through the 'Login or Register' panel on the top-right of the website. Registration is not the same as Application. Registration is to use the site, receive rank promotions and join us on raids. Registration only needs to happen once, and should be the the name of the main character the person plays with.

We have two standing invitations to any members of Old Gits and Divine Intervention. Anyone else who wishes to joinOld Timers should demonstrate the small modicum of commitment required by filling in an application. Those who wish to return to Old Timers (as the same player, regardless of which character the application is for) will typically (though not always) also have to fill in an application.

We used to have an open-door policy, but that lead to, frankly, idiots in the guild. We now restrict invitations so that we can pre-screen applicants. It gives us an idea as to who were are getting. We don't want to upset what is a good, stable atmosphere, and it also gives applicants an opportunity for them to learn alittle about us too, and ifnd out if we're the right guild for them.

Padraig, Natus, Fairmir and Xaod are the Officers in charge of reviewing applications, though indeed and Officer can invite and any Member can review applications through the forum. These Officers, as will others, keep a close eye on who applies, and make sure that Old Timers continues to grow.

Thanks,

Krakesh

Since we first ventured into Karazhan, we've consistently maintained a 10-man approach to raiding. We've dallied with two 10-man groups, and even discussed 25-man raiding, but our core has been the smaller, comparatively more difficult, but much more intimate and rewarding content. Recent influx of like-minded players has seen us grow to greater numbers; players from Divine Intervention and more recently Old Gits have brought fresh faces to Old Timers, and swelled the raiding ranks. We have over 125 level 80 characters; that is around one 80 per guild account. We know however that many people have more than one 80, and my gut-feeling is that we have at least 40 different players at that level. For a 10-man guild, this is a fantastically massive number, similar in fact to some highly-progressed 25-man hardcore raiding guilds.

But this post isn't about the future of Old Timers as a raiding guild, though it may be the start of that discussion. This post is about who raids, and how I choose/decide/select/allow/deny (delete as you find applicable) who joins the select 10 on Wednesdays and Sundays. We had 17 sign-ups for last nights raid. We are missing regular raiders who's current circumstances have taken their attention from the game for now. With our full raiding roster, last night could have been a 25-man raid. However, 17 won't fit into 10.

At this point in our guild's life, we have one regular raid leader; me. As a casual raiding guild, we understand that this game is no more than a hobby for most people, and we don't make demands based on raid attendance. We also don't make the same demands on Officers and Raid Leaders. It's one of the reasons we are a popular guild, but it's the same reason that means those who have lead raids in the last 18 months aren't regular RLs. RL>RL (real life > raid leading). I enjoy raiding, I enjoy Raid Leading, and this means that at times I've lead raids rather than see them not happening. In the whole, it's something I am more than happy to do very frequently. But with that role comes responsibility and accountability. Rather than choosing 10 last night, I turned down 7. It's important that everyone understands my thought processes as to who to take; it helps you appreciate my decisions further, and also means I don't have to repeat /w conversations with several people regarding the same thing. So I've detailed below how I come to those decisions. It isn't a ranked list, so those at the top aren't necessarily more important than others.

Progression:
I have never wanted Old Timers to sit back and watch all the others guild race past us through content. It would be fantastic if we were to clear content along with those quicker guilds on the server. We started Karazhan much later than most raiding guilds on the server, but since Wrath, we've kept a closer pace with the progression raiders. We're still 3-4 months behind them, but compare that with 8-12 months for Burning Crusade.

Let me take you back to May 2008. We'd gathered enough 70s of the right roles to venture into Karazhan. We'd researched Attumen so that we had a rough idea of what to expect. We gathered our best crew, and entered that portal... and wiped. On the horses. We got our asses handed to us by stable boys. We were so slow that respawns happened before we even got halfway. It was harsh; a demoralising lesson that we just weren't ready. It very nearly put some people off raiding forever.. We took a breath, geared-up and 'knowledged-up' and returned.

A few months later, and we're farming the first half of it, a few months after that, and we've cleared it. Facing those challenges and overcoming them is far more rewarding than farming 'easy' bosses over and over. Progression raiding allows us to see new content, and keeps morale high. It allows us to bring less experienced and less geared raiders through that earlier content, training others to our progression standards. But in order to progress, there has to be a core to the raid... 6-8 people who continue from session to session.

We're dropping new bosses at the rate of 1 per week. By any marker, this is progression. Give us another 30-60 minutes a raid, and we're dropping 2 new per week. If we recycled 10 raiders every session, this is unlikely to happen. We hit walls, morale drops, and we get stuck.

Class Balance:
I like Paladins. Paladins give the raid multiple buffs, auras and roles. Same with Druids and Priests. Warlocks have versatility, in fact, all classes have something to bring a raid. Consider those boss fights that either require a particular class, role or skill; I re-specced Survival so we could drop Gluth, Noth is made much trickier without a Mage or Druid, the Iron Council cause big problems without a Priest or Paladin. So the bosses involved play a part in my decision.

One factor that is class-related but is never important to who I choose is the gear that drops. I have never once selected a class because of the loot that may possibly drop for them. Never have, never will. If you're disappointed that you didn't get to go because you won't get a certain shiny, then I'm afraid I'm not the raid leader for you, and you aren't the raider for me.

Attitude:
What's your attitude like? Do you love linking PuGged Recount data in guild chat to show how much DPS you can kick out? Are you constantly typing 'gogogogo' in /p? Are you still going through your life without typing 'please' and 'thanks'? Well, that's a shame. This game involves real people, and those people don't expect to be treated any differently than if you were sat in the same room as them. Imagine you're playing with 4/9/24 other people who for example, are giving you a job interview. Would you scream 'FFS' through the door if they were running a few minutes late? Would you call one a 'noob' if they dropped their pen? Would you get up and walk out if they forgot to put one sugar in your coffee? If your answer to any of these questions is 'yes' then I'm afraid you have much bigger problems. Delete WoW, and get a hobby that involves meeting people face-to-face. Better yet, look in the dictionary under 'respect'. You'll find it goes both ways.

Progression raiding is hard. I made mistakes last night, and the raid wiped. We failed because I didn't do what I should have done. Slam me for it in /p, and you begin to cause more problems than that wipe actually created. Being aware of those mistakes is punishment enough, and fun is not going to happen in an atmosphere of blame, insults and rudeness.

Limitations:
We raid for 5-6 hours per week. To keep progression a reality, I need to maintain continuity through the two sessions. This means keeping as much of a proven effective group as much as possible from session to session. However, we have 30-40 people who could all contribute to Ulduar raiding. With one group, there is no way I can keep all of these people happy. Here's some stats for you from wow-heroes.com (the further you dig, the less accurate its data becomes, but it's useful for generalisations):

There are 55 level 80s who would find gear upgrades from Ulduar 10 and beyond.
Anaster, my 80 Holy/Prot paladin has healed effectively in Ulduar on two of the early bosses.
If you look at those 80s in the same 'gear upgrade' bracket as Anaster, we find another 31 80s who are suitably geared for the first 3-4 bosses. This is a fair assumption to make, as this bracket also contains at least one other character who has performed well in Ulduar.
During August raids I have changed anywhere between 3 (minimum) and 6 (maximum) characters from one session to the next.

There can be no guarantee that simply because you have been in one raid session during a lockout, that you will be in the next session. With our current raiding roster, that is simply not possible. Even I, as the only regular raid leader, drop myself from raids that I could make. I have always said that I cannot expect anyone else to go on standby if I cannot make the same for myself.

So, what are the solutions to leaving out a large number of raiders? Simple. More raids. This needs more raid leaders, more people to research, prepare, plan, construct and lead raids. Why aren't we doing that now? Because it's a damn hard job. Unless you've led raids for a long time, you may not understand what level of work goes into them. Hopefully, the rewards outweigh the effort... But if you want to raid more, then leading pretty much guarantees you a lot of raid presence.

If you aren't happy that you've been left out of a recent raid, please read the above again. If you don't agree with what I've written, wish to challenge some of the statements, I've set up a post in the Raiding >> The End Game forum.

Gary

Due to new intake and the large amount of level 80's in the guild, we are looking for more raid leaders. This means someone that is willing to do some research prior to the raid, creating the raid on the calander page, choosing your raid composition and so on. Currently this is mainly falling on Krakesh's shoulders.

We have the ability and man-power to do more than one 10 man Ulduar raid for example, or even the potential of Ulduar 25. A lot of the 25 man content does actually rely on other guild members signing up to the website though if we want to pre-organise the raid composition.

If you're interested, please talk to Mornwhim or Krakesk (though it is Krakesh that will have to sort out the website access etc regarding calander input etc).

Have fun.

I'm hijacking the latest installment of my sporadic and oft-ignored (:P) series to stress a particular point I and other Officers feel strongly about...
.
.
.

Why should I use the website to sign up for raids?

Before I argue for that, let's look at the arguments against signing up.

I can't be bothered
This is the worst one out of the way first. I pay around £120 a year (about 140 euros) to maintain this website and everything that goes with it (including my time which is about £20 per hour in my current job). Add on another £50 for the Ventrilo server, and I'm already paying nearly twice what you pay just with your one WoW account. If you can't be bothered to register with the site (a process that takes 60 seconds of your time) then ensure you are logged in (15 seconds per month) and then sign up to a raid (10 seconds each time) then I can't be bothered to pick you.

I can't sign in
Before you sign in, you have to register and then your account has to be activated. Your presence in the guild also has to be checked by the website, and that is a process I perform 2-3 times per week. If you are registered, signed in, and part of an active roster, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to register. If it is an internet / browser (get Firefox!) problem, then contact a Custodian and they can sign you up themselves.

I don't know if I can make it
So, you're ready to raid but aren't sure about when you can get logged in. No worries. The best thing here is to sign up anyway. There's a note you can add to your sign-up that informs us of your problem. You can also cancel your sign-up if you definitely can't make it. All info is useful info, and the raid leader can use that.

-

So, we've covered the main reasons against signing up, here's why you should...

Forward planning
That's it really, but it counts for oh-so-much! I would say that those who have lead multiple raids in this guild can be counted on one hand. Maybe it's Anne Boleyn's hand, but it's one nonetheless. So, that's 5-6 people out of 40+ raiders. Around 10-15%. If you look at multiple as meaning more than 5, then half that figure easily. Raid Leading is the most stressful job in the guild, bar none. Running the Guild Bank? A doddle compared with leading a raid. Kicking an abusive player from the guild? Easy Street. Leading a guild of 250+ characters? A cakewalk.

The Raid leader is responsible for the actions of 10 or 25 people, period. You turn up without consumables? Your fault, but it paints a picture of that raid and that raid leader. Not repaired, and it slows the raid down as you hearth, all the while people are waiting and thinking about the RL. Your actions wipe the raid (and this we accept is a consequence of raiding, so I am not saying that wipes shouldn't happen) and the raid leader is the one who gets the stigma attached to them. That's not to say that you won't be remembered for your actions (certainly, we'll remember the unacceptable ones) but your RL also gathers some of your tar. When Raiders get impatient, this all reflects on the RL. It shouldn't, but that's what we accept when we take on the heft role.

The Raid Leader also makes many sacrifices:
- Time out of game (taken from work, rest or play) to prepare for the raid, learning the boss fights, new encounters, balancing raid compositions and feeding back to the Officers and Guild
- Limiting their own raid potential. During fights, I am constantly checking what other people are doing, who they are targetting, who needs healing, who's moving in the fire or standing with the wrong charges. This all reduces my own effectiveness. Hopefully, it doesn't limit it too much, and in fact if everyone is doing the right thing, the impact is minimal.
- Enjoyment of the raid. I have much more constant fun when simply being a Hunter. Granted, no one gets more enjoyment when a raid drops an important boss than the RL, but the peaks don't always make up for the troughs.
- Health. Why should I go to bed stressed because someone hasn't had fun? Why should I fire off emails and forum posts complaining about what happened? See, this post has turned into 'I' rather than 'we' and that's the effect that needless barriers to success have on RLs.

-

So, where are we? Well, where we have always been. Expecting those who want to raid as part of a successful, intelligent, mature, happy, fun-loving, caring, casual raiding guild to do their bit. None of the Raid Leaders want to make decrees that if we don't get enough sign-up then we're not going. But if we want to continue to explore new territory (both our own 10-man experience and working with Divine Intervention to visit 25-man content) then we need people to sign up.

1 minute of your time per week, versus all the negatives. You know it makes perfect sense.